00;00;00;00 - 00;00;27;23 Unknown You're listening to CECI Connect, a podcast from the CECI Undergraduate advising Office for the College of Education and Community Innovation at Grand Valley State University. Whether you're a student, teacher, professional or friend. Welcome to this episode. 00;00;27;26 - 00;00;51;24 Unknown So today I have with me a very special guest. We are joined by associate Dean, Doctor Chasity Bailey-Fakhoury. Hey, Melanie. Thanks for inviting me on. Yes. Thank you for being here. I'm so grateful that you found time to chat with us today. I wanted to make sure that we have a whole episode about this topic because it's very important to me. 00;00;51;27 - 00;01;14;18 Unknown I deeply care about liberal education. I think that's something that probably a lot of Grand Valley employees have in common with each other. So, I'm hoping today we can have, like, a really cool conversation for our students about what we love about liberal education and what we think they can gain from studying here at Grand Valley. 00;01;14;20 - 00;01;35;01 Unknown But before we get into that, I would love it if you could share with us your journey. Give us a little brief overview of what you've accomplished and what you've been through to sort of get to where you are today. As our associate Dean. Well, so I have to start out with the fact that I'm from Detroit originally. 00;01;35;03 - 00;02;08;05 Unknown I taught in Detroit public schools for 15 years before I finished my PhD, and was able to take on a job as a professor of educational foundations, here at Grand Valley State. I've been at GVSU for 11 years, right. So I am a teacher educator. That's what I came here for, was to, utilize my experience, my knowledge, my skills in order to help develop equity minded future teachers. 00;02;08;07 - 00;02;39;12 Unknown So I've only been associate dean since August. So this is brand new for me, but it is just a natural kind of continuation. I think about the legacy that I had in Detroit public schools, the thousands of students that I taught over the years, and partnering with them and their families to help them realize their aspirations. I began to think, how could I have a larger impact? 00;02;39;12 - 00;03;02;08 Unknown And it's like, well, wow, what if I could help develop future teachers who kind of come at it with a similar ethos that I do right in, in seeing the brilliance in children? Wanting to partner with them and have them realize their potential and find their purpose. And it was like, well, you know, developing future teachers who could do that, right? 00;03;02;13 - 00;03;34;29 Unknown A teacher, educator. And then now expanding that to think about a really holistic approach to education and this college of education and community innovation, not only being able to partner with future teachers, but future social workers, future folks who are in the the legal system, it will be coming into contact, perhaps with families and students and children. Thinking about, you know, public administration and I mean, the list goes on. 00;03;34;29 - 00;04;05;08 Unknown Like everyone within the college has the ability to touch this kind of K-12, ecosystem. And so then as a part of the leadership in the college, I can help make those connection points. I can help folks, collaborate. And we can really do things that are going to be beneficial for the community. And it's children. So that's kind of, you know, how I come to this work at this particular point in time. 00;04;05;10 - 00;04;38;15 Unknown I love that, I think, I've been working in higher ed for, almost 15 years. But for the sake of our listeners who are maybe new to college, could you explain maybe the biggest difference you've noticed in your professional life between being a teacher, educator and being a dean? So one of the biggest things is, you know, you do lose that that student to teacher kind of every day relationship and interaction. 00;04;38;17 - 00;05;09;05 Unknown Kind of deepening those, relationships in that regard. But, you can help to craft the vision for the college and then be able to amplify and elevate the work of faculty colleagues, of staff colleagues, of students. Right. You're able to make connection points. You're able to help provide the resources and supports that are necessary to kind of realize the vision. 00;05;09;07 - 00;05;35;11 Unknown I'm able to support that connection between faculty and student, right, in a lot of ways, and touch a lot, a lot more folks than maybe out of the three classes I would teach a semester, the like 60 students that I would end up, getting to know. It's just a larger space. You're still doing the work on behalf of of the folks you're still serving, right? 00;05;35;19 - 00;06;00;22 Unknown But it just allows you greater access that you can leverage to the benefit of other folks. So, did you always know that you were going to be an associate dean someday? So what did you think you were going to be doing? I really thought that I would be professionally fulfilled and satisfied retiring as a teacher educator. 00;06;00;24 - 00;06;33;01 Unknown Right. Being a teacher, scholar, all of those things. I had the fortune of being able to participate in some programs for faculty development here at Grand Valley State. That allowed me to see administrators in action. And what was really kind of opaque to me, in a way, became really clear. And I could see myself doing this work like, I, you know, I can, I can I can make a difference, right? 00;06;33;08 - 00;06;59;00 Unknown I can bring that faculty perspective, that former public school teacher perspective to bear in this administrative role. I thought, okay, I can do this right. My college has really invested in me, and I want to be able to invest in it like I want to pay the dividend right? I want to pay it back. And now I can see myself. 00;06;59;00 - 00;07;28;20 Unknown Yes. Becoming a dean of a college of education or a college similar to our College of Education and Community Innovation. Yes. I can be a provost at a college or university, because I had exposure and experience in these programs that allowed me to be at a table to see decisions made, to see how folks move through spaces, how they show up, how they navigate spaces in this kind of administrative and senior leadership capacity. 00;07;28;28 - 00;07;54;23 Unknown And I, developed I mean, you know, the belief in my skills and the confidence in myself that I could be someone's chief academic officer, right. The provost of a university or institution. I'm not looking to be anybody's president. Okay? But I'm very comfortable being on the team and being your number two. I'm very comfortable in that spot. 00;07;54;25 - 00;08;44;01 Unknown If I'm dedicated to the vision right. And the. And what it is that you're trying to accomplish, then I can be an integral role in helping to bring that vision to fruition. I think what I'm hearing too, and you describing your sort of like self-actualization, the sort of like pathway you found toward achieving fulfillment, maybe in a different way than you thought you would, is noticing a relationship between your experiences and what you've learned about yourself in that experience, whether you identified a skill that you gained, a goal that you might have developed and I really do feel like those of us who work in higher ed see learning and experiencing things 00;08;44;01 - 00;09;07;24 Unknown as like a playground to find yourself and, in my experience, that's what undergrad was for me a lot. Can you share with us a little bit about your undergrad journey and what you were studying, and like what you learned about yourself in that phase of your life? I agree so much with what you just said that really resonates with me. 00;09;07;27 - 00;09;48;03 Unknown Not only did I teach in Detroit public schools, I was educated through Detroit Public Schools from kindergarten to 12th grade. I attended University of Michigan in undergrad, and I majored in sociology. Okay, and got my teaching certification so that I could become a social studies teacher. I think about the coursework that I was required to take, and then the stuff that I loved and wanted so much more of, and how I was so excited to become a junior, a senior, because then what my course looked like was more of those classes that I really loved. 00;09;48;05 - 00;10;33;07 Unknown That my first year, second year experience really prepared me to be able to make very broad connections between the content that I was receiving and, you know, first and second year that would then, help to kind of shape and guide, those higher level courses in my, in my major. And so I loved learning. Right. And things I did not know about, you know, discovery of so much history, even like the practical application of statistics, you know, it's like, so many things that allowed for me to kind of broaden my perspective. 00;10;33;12 - 00;11;01;19 Unknown That challenged my thinking, what I thought was the gospel truth, right? About certain, concepts or constructs or issues, really growing right in that interrogating. Yeah. Where did I get this from? Who told me this story? How did I get this message? Right? Learning more about this American story, this the U.S. context and our connection across the globe. 00;11;01;19 - 00;11;23;24 Unknown So it just a lot. Right. And I loved it. I soaked it up, but learned a lot about about myself and who I am, who I am in this society. One of the best things I ever did was to study abroad for a semester. I took advantage of what we call these one of these high impact practices. 00;11;23;26 - 00;12;00;08 Unknown And I went to Italy and I studied abroad and, in Florence, and I learned a little Italian, and I, dug into, Renaissance art history. I was thinking about how I could use my experiences in Italy, going to these world historical sites, and bringing that back for my students when I would teach about world civilizations, when I would teach about world history. 00;12;00;11 - 00;12;23;26 Unknown So when I went to Italy, we went to Rome, as a, a weekend trip, and we went to the Colosseum. And at this time when I went, you could actually go down to the lower levels of the Colosseum and I have a picture of me standing on. You were allowed to do this. I didn't break any rules. 00;12;23;28 - 00;12;56;23 Unknown You were allowed to stand on these remnants, right? And I took a picture, with the kind of the amphitheater part in the back of the Colosseum. The amphitheater. So you see me and you see the amphitheater I turned this into back in the day. We use transparencies right on a overhead projector. So I had these pictures of me in these places in, in Italy that we would be talking about, I would be teaching my students about and then say, see look at me. 00;12;56;23 - 00;13;45;18 Unknown When I was in college this is what I did, right. And so that was a it was just a totally life changing experience. And I would want every person to have some kind of transformative educational experience like that. And I think it's just so important to our, you know, growth and development as human beings. I agree, I think, that's sort of what I was, I was hoping we would be able to talk about today is like the transfer, formative experience of learning, growing and what college can kind of provide for you so that you can learn and you can develop. 00;13;45;20 - 00;14;11;17 Unknown And, I mentioned to you in sort of our like, you know, pre recording conversation about how I come from a humanities background. When I was in undergrad, I tried a bunch of different majors, I really did, I tried I originally came to Grand Valley for the social work program. That's what I wanted to do. I was like, I'm going to be a social worker. 00;14;11;19 - 00;14;56;11 Unknown And my understanding of college is that it was career readiness, not necessarily personal development zone. And I came to college with this idea that I was going to study something that had a job directly related to it. So I'll major in social work, because then I'll be a social worker when I'm done. And that didn't work out. So then I studied education because I was going to be a teacher when I was done, and I think it was my junior year of college, I studied abroad, I went to the Netherlands and was teaching in a classroom, and then came back to the United States, and I was like, I don't want to be a teacher. 00;14;56;13 - 00;15;31;12 Unknown Like at all. Definitely not in the K-12 setting. So now what do I do? And I just opted to finish my degree in English literature. But I didn't know what job you do after you major in English. So it there was a lot of fear and anxiety for me in studying humanities and sort of just digging deep into liberal education because I didn't have a job lined up based on what major I had. 00;15;31;15 - 00;16;02;10 Unknown Now, the students that I work with here at CECI they all have that job that they are studying about in their classes. We have majors here in this college that are directly related to a job that you can get when you're done. But we still ask our students to complete the general education curriculum here. We still ask that our students embrace a liberal education. 00;16;02;13 - 00;16;25;17 Unknown A lot of them will graduate with a bachelor's degree in arts or a bachelor's degree in science. Those are awarded to you because you've accomplished that liberal education curriculum. So, you know, I came from it with like a huge appreciation for liberal education because I had to work through this anxiety about like, what job am I going to get? 00;16;25;17 - 00;17;13;28 Unknown So I had to really focus on what skills I developed in college so that I could sell myself to a job after. And then we have other folks that studying specifically for that job related to their major. As somebody who has feet in two worlds of like, you know, you were an educator who followed a path towards educating other people and now working with educators from like an educator mindset, like you had a path that way, but then also as an advocate for wholehearted, well-rounded learning at the college level, can you share with us what direct benefits you see in our students receiving a liberal education, whether they're going to become a police officer 00;17;14;01 - 00;17;47;28 Unknown or a detective, or a lawyer, or a social worker, or a fifth grade teacher, what direct benefits do you see to them all experiencing liberal education here? I think about problem solving. What problem do you want to solve? How will you go about doing that effectively? Is this a problem that I can solve independently, or do I need to collaborate with other people every day? 00;17;48;01 - 00;18;19;18 Unknown Folks are faced with problems that they need to solve. Whether you're the teacher in the classroom, you know, seeing students who maybe don't seem as engaged, whether you are a social worker who is, supporting someone who is facing challenges with mental wellness, right? You are the person in juvenile justice and and you are talking with the school resource officer about some issues that may be okay. 00;18;19;18 - 00;18;48;10 Unknown Well, this is what a liberal education does, is that it provides you with different like a multifaceted approach. When you are presented with a problem, nothing happens in a vacuum. And so you're getting a little bit of the social science is you're getting a little bit of the physical and life sciences. You're getting a little bit of the mathematics you've got for English. 00;18;48;10 - 00;19;41;20 Unknown You have some history, you got a little, you know, the philosophy, right? All of these things broaden our perspective and understanding and allow us to see connections right. Reveal like openings, help us shape keys to unlock solutions. So I think that that is what is the most you know, why this is like the most human centered endeavor, right, is because we are developing the capacity as human beings to be faced with issues or problems and devise solutions to create solutions, and they will take all different shapes and sizes, and we can be presented with the same problem. 00;19;41;23 - 00;20;14;08 Unknown And in a classroom of 25, people come up with massive amount of solutions for a particular problem based upon the experiences that we've had, the coursework that we, you know, delved into different frameworks that we've been given, or that we explored in different classes, our own positionality. Right. And, and the experiences that are associated with that, all of that colors our understanding of how we're going to see something and then how we might tackle it right. 00;20;14;10 - 00;20;46;17 Unknown And so I think that that's really important to be presented with a challenge and to not despair, to be able to be in conversation or community with other people if necessary, to try to figure out, solutions. And I think that that is the biggest, benefit, right? For me, when we think about a liberal education and that everybody needs it, whether you're going to go into the business college, whether you're in computing or engineering, right. 00;20;46;19 - 00;21;09;04 Unknown How do you transfer knowledge? How are you able to translate, you know, the things that you're learning so that you're moving from theory to practice. And it is a benefit of yourself and other folks. Right. And a liberal education gives you the tools to be able to do that. You know, people talk about soft skills, and I just do not like the term soft skills. 00;21;09;04 - 00;21;35;21 Unknown I mean, these are fundamental skills. They are the building blocks for everything else. Right? And those are those are things that you develop, through, a liberal education. I cannot agree more. I think, I, I describe this to a lot of people in my life where, I'm not among a lot of college educated people. 00;21;35;21 - 00;22;01;27 Unknown I'm among a lot of, like, life educated people. And so I have figured out that, there's a particular way I like to describe my experience with college, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that I have, a bachelor's degree that I feel like is my sort of liberal arts degree. And then I have a master's degree that I feel like is more of my professional degree. 00;22;01;27 - 00;22;30;20 Unknown It's the one that's more deeply connected to the work I do every day. And that sort of like practical, professional component to my education is what made me feel like I belonged in this professional world. So if I had if I had gotten my bachelor's degree in, like hospitality and tourism management, I think those classes that I would have taken related to that field would make me feel like I belong there. 00;22;30;22 - 00;23;01;23 Unknown And then the liberal arts kinds of classes or the the gen ed kind of classes are sort of like my English degree, where it makes me feel like I can participate in society. It makes me feel like I can relate to other people. And like you said, I can solve problems. I had to transfer that knowledge into lots of different practical settings all the time, and the value of feeling like I can meet a new person. 00;23;01;25 - 00;23;28;10 Unknown I can approach a new experience, and I'm either going to have the ability to connect with this person, because maybe we've read the same book now, or we've studied the same philosophy, or, you know, they're a biologist, and I took a biology class that one time, like, I can connect with them or it's going to be some sort of experience where now I have, critical thinking skills, you know, you know, things like that. 00;23;28;10 - 00;24;03;17 Unknown So it's like my liberal education helped me be a person here in of this place. And then my professional degree let me feel like I had an open door into an industry, and they both work together all the time because I'm not just at work, I do other things as well. So I feel like what you've done really well here in this conversation is sort of lay out the fact that, holistically speaking, we want our students to feel professionally ready, but also like personally ready. 00;24;03;19 - 00;24;33;13 Unknown And it sounds to me like you, recognize the value in, pursuing a professional goal, even if it's from start to finish. And even if your degree looks exactly like the job you're going to get afterwards. We we value professional readiness, but we also value human development and skill development and exposure development. That makes you a more rounded, whole person when you leave us. 00;24;33;19 - 00;24;54;13 Unknown So I think, that leads really well actually into the question we ask everyone when they're here on our podcast. So, and our last few minutes together, if you could please answer the question for me, what does connection mean to you? 00;24;54;15 - 00;25;25;14 Unknown Connection means to me. Community, in thinking about what you just spoke out, spoke about and being able to be a citizen of the world, that is what we're talking about. Our professional identity is just one part of who we are, right? But we are a citizen of the world, and that shows up in so many different spaces, right? 00;25;25;20 - 00;26;16;20 Unknown And so connection for me is about, community thinking about, investing in community, growing community, wherever I may be. That we can take the, the term connection and so many ways that, really, fosters community and facilitates that. Right. And so that's what we want to foster in this kind of physical place. Right? Is community, is feeling a sense of being a part of something greater than myself. 00;26;16;22 - 00;26;50;18 Unknown Right. And I do that through connection with other folks. That it is not just me. Right. Are there things that we want to solve and challenges before us? We can do that in community, right? We can find, rest and rejuvenation in community. Right. And so those connections are extremely important then for facilitating those kinds of things. 00;26;50;18 - 00;27;23;07 Unknown Right. So a community can be anywhere, that you are that people congregate, right, in varying levels. It does not always have to be active. Again, it can be, a place of rest, right? When we need that kind of getting away from, we can find it in community. And so, that is what comes to mind for me when we talk about connections. 00;27;23;10 - 00;27;49;08 Unknown Well, that's beautiful. And I feel like, you know, even if it's just the two of us talking today, I feel like through our connection, we sort of established our own little mini community in this moment. So I feel deeply connected to your answer there, and I just really appreciate it. It's been an absolute joy listening to you, learning from you today, and I'm just so grateful. 00;27;49;10 - 00;28;08;08 Unknown Thank you for the invitation. I feel to say that we have created a community in this moment. Right. And, and thank you for the invitation. I, I've enjoyed this conversation and I think it is much, much needed. 00;28;08;10 - 00;28;41;16 Unknown Thank you for listening. Our episode was hosted, written and engineered by Melanie Rabine - Johnson, the academic resources and retention specialist for the CECI Undergraduate Advising Office at Grand Valley State University.