Megan Riksen:

Hello and welcome to the work like a Laker podcast. I'm Megan Riksen and today I'm joined by Brian Bossick. Hi Brian.

Brian Bossick:

Hi Megan.

Megan Riksen:

So we have lots of students who are interested in healthcare careers, but they aren't always exactly sure what their options might be. So today we wanna talk about healthcare career pathways and how you can go about pursuing lots of these options.

Brian Bossick:

Excellent. And there are two main types of career pathways within healthcare and it's either clinical or nonclinical. So when we talk about clinical career paths, we're referring to direct patient care. So these are the roles you might often initially think of when you think of healthcare. Professions like a nurse, physician, physical therapist. Other other ones like that may come to mind. Non-Clinical healthcare careers are careers where you're not doing direct patient care but in more of an administrative role. So you're still working toward the organizational goal of improving the care experience for patients. And students are often are unfamiliar with these options because you don't hear as much about 'em. If you think about movies and TV shows, most often you are seeing careers that are direct patient care instead of the administrative side of things. Right.

Megan Riksen:

Probably not the most exciting TV show to just watch someone at a computer or, you know, interviewing people or something like that.

Brian Bossick:

I agree.

Megan Riksen:

Awesome. Okay. So we just wanna do a really quick primer. A little more information about clinical versus nonclinical. So I'm gonna start with the clinical. And I will also say a little later in this episode we will be interviewing someone who has worked on both sides of the healthcare industry. So definitely stay tuned for that. But you know, clinical pathways are very popular at Grand Valley. We have bachelor and graduate level clinical programs and students in these programs will do training with professionals in their field in lots of different healthcare environments so that at the end of their schooling they're ready for whatever professional exam they need to complete or licensure they need to obtain, which would allow them to actually practice in a clinical way in their field. So, you know, while these programs are very appealing, and I don't know about you Brian, but when I've worked at like new student orientation.

Megan Riksen:

It seems like about half of the students there wanna go into healthcare. Absolutely. Everybody wants to be a nurse. Yes. Or a PA or a PT or something. But we know that that's just not where everybody will necessarily end up. Absolutely. And part of that is because, you know, these programs have a secondary admission process at Grand Valley. So the nursing program for example, you have to apply and get in and there's lots of criteria. Right. and you know, if you are considering that, that's fabulous. We just always recommend that you are meeting with your academic advisors and that also you come and meet with someone in the career center as well because getting experience is a great, great way to kind of build your resume toward getting into one of those programs. Absolutely.

Megan Riksen:

So those are just a few things to consider you know, and always understand the type of education and training you need to work in the clinical role. So yeah, some of them might just need a bachelor's degree. Some of them you might need to do, you know, professional school postgrad. So a career advisor can definitely help to walk you through those certain career paths. Because actually often there, there even could be more than one route for getting somewhere, especially when it comes to undergraduate major. Absolutely. It doesn't always have to just be one specific major that aligns with one specific clinical type of career. So our biggest step is don't delay get started, talk to your academic advisor, come to the career center. Cause that's only going to help if you can get started early.

Brian Bossick:

That's right. And then you get information about that career you're researching and then maybe some ones that are related. Yes. And you decide what's a really good path for you.

Megan Riksen:

Exactly. Awesome. Do you wanna tell us a little bit more about non-clinical?

Brian Bossick:

I can. So let's say you decide to go the non-clinical route. And again, those are healthcare careers that don't involve direct patient care. And you may still be interacting with patients and your role is still contributing to the ultimate goal of providing excellent patient care. You're just not providing that support and that treatment directly with patients. Yeah. one of the big questions is, that sounds interesting. What do I, what does that mean? What kind of jobs can I find there? And let's say you want to do a healthcare career and you're not sure what the non-clinical one looks like. Well go to a hospital website and on that website you kind of check out the different job listings. And there you will see everything from direct patient care to the business side to other areas, to the nonprofit part, to the outreach part. So some of the common terms that would be working in a healthcare setting, but non-direct patient care is like in human resources, health information management, risk management. So that is a wonderful way to see some of the other opportunities that would be working in a health field, but non-clinical careers. You might also consider environments beyond hospitals. And so think of all the employers that can be related to healthcare. And this might be like a health insurance agency, a medical device company, pharmaceutical companies, nonprofit organizations, IT companies.

Megan Riksen:

And we have a lot of those employers in the West Michigan area.

Brian Bossick:

We do. And it is such a great way to kind of work in, in a non-clinical but health-related field.

Megan Riksen:

Right. Absolutely.

Brian Bossick:

And so if you wanna start some of that journey on your own, there's a couple great websites you can check out too. So the website Explore Health Careers.org And also Onet are great resources. We'll have those in kind of our notes for the podcast, but there you can also start to kind of follow the spider webs of clinical and nonclinical and healthcare career is a great way to get started.

Megan Riksen:

And now joining us is Rob Ayotte, a Talent Program Specialist for Engagement and Outreach at Spectrum Health. Rob, welcome.

Ron Ayotte:

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Megan Riksen:

Thanks so much for joining us and we are really excited to bring you on because you've been on both sides of the healthcare world, is that right?

Ron Ayotte:

I have, yeah.

Megan Riksen:

So can you just kind of start with, you know, a little bit of your career journey, what that, what that looks like, and then we can kind of dig into some of those aspects.

Ron Ayotte:

Yeah, so I first started off as a certified nursing assistant in a rehab facility. Was there trying of, I kinda like starting off in my college career, obviously needing a position mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and starting off there, I started getting my certification when I was in high school, came to school at Grand Valley State University, go Lakers. And I did I was there doing it and I just realized like, this isn't, sometimes you have to have like that passion to go into nursing school or go to PA school and I just felt like this isn't, wasn't the calling for me. And so I thought, you know, where, what, what is my next step? And so that's why I thought like the nonclinical route would be best. I kind of changed my major. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> went into it just fell in love with the classes, ethics management, all of that. And that what kind of like led me towards the nonclinical side and kinda got me into HR as well. And then I just kind of switched over from I was taking care of patients, but now I wanna take care of my employees.

Megan Riksen:

That's great. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, and that's really kind of the goal of this podcast is to, you know, share with our listeners that you can have a passion for in this instance healthcare. But there's many ways of going about that. Thank you so much. So you kind of mentioned it a little bit, but I'd like to dig in a little more just kind of was it the, the specific classes you were taking that kind of made you think, ooh, I wanna change gears from the clinical to the non-clinical? Or was there specific experience.

Ron Ayotte:

You know, like a moment the light bulb in your head

Megan Riksen:

As a CNA or, Yeah,

Ron Ayotte:

Actually in a way, so I was working with a lot of different leaders as a CNA you have, you have a lead, you've got a team lead, you manager, supervisor all the way up. Yep. And I just felt like when I was, we'd have our team meetings, we'd meet with group in our groups and I just felt like, no, that's what I wanna do. I wanna lead a team. And I know that that's, to get there, you kind of have to get in that management experience. And the non-clinical side. And so I just started having mentors kind of doing the one on one meet and greets with leaders just to get to know them, what their experience was. Yep. Kinda making those, building my social cap capital mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, building those networking skills and that's, they what kind of led me to do this. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> just, just talking with them and what kind of work they are doing just kind of inspired me. The light bulb went off like, you know, this is the route I should go. So I, I really do thank like the mentors and all the different leaders from all the different organizations I've worked for. Cuz that's where they got me to where I'm at now.

Brian Bossick:

Amazing. That's fantastic. I, I think that's one of the questions that comes up for us so often is, well, how do I find those people? And, and, and so for yourself, how did you, how did you make those connections?

Ron Ayotte:

So for me, when I first, I just feel like I was, I've always been just very extroverted, always wanted to meet new people. And having that skill I think benefited for me. So my first steps for when I wanted to meet those people was just always first I'm always ask saying yes to things. Like if it was when I was a CNA or a nurse technician, I just felt like I was doing more than I could ask. Like if it was to go bring copies to HR or, or just, just things that were not even in my scope. Just being able to meet all those people mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, like maybe going to central supply, getting things from there, speaking with them, making those connections. Just even saying, Hi, how are you? My name's Rob. Nice to meet you. Those things can make a big difference of like when you meet those people.

Ron Ayotte:

Cuz it's gonna remind them like, Oh, when you, you meet them next they're gonna know who you are and it can, it could get benefit you in the long run. Let's say there's a job that opens up in that area and they like, and you apply and they like, maybe you send them a message like, Hey, we've met before, like we've met a few times, the light bulb's gonna go off there, it's gonna ring a bell. So I just thinking that really helped me kind of get out there, meet those people yeah, really think just those, that's what the networking skills that really helped me get to where I'm at.

Brian Bossick:

No, I think that's great. And, and I love the idea too, you mentioned of, of doing things that aren't just even part of your job description. Like, how can I help? Right. Like, how can I help? And always, and from that it's like you learn so much right. Just about what you like, you don't, like, you connect with people. I think that's a great point. Agreed.

Megan Riksen:

Absolutely. Okay, so now you are at Spectrum Health. I am, Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about your role and I guess kind of the best parts of it? Yeah. And, and maybe some of, you know, I'm just gonna throw in all the questions. Maybe some of the strengths you feel you have now that like really align best with what you're in now. Yeah.

Ron Ayotte:

So like you said, I am a Talent Program Specialist. I specialize in outreach and engagement on our community programs team. So we're in the Talent Acquisition Department. So a lot of what we do do are, is building our talent development in our organization in all different departments. And so a lot of what I, my favorite things are is that I get to work with a lot of different community partnerships. Okay. So I sometimes work with different generations, K through 12 underrepresented individuals. I work with tech centers, the chambers throughout the regions. So those are things that I just really love to do. I love cultivating relationships with the community partnerships connecting with prospective candidates coming up, helping them find that job. It's always, that was like the best part about when I was a recruiter is like giving, sending out that offer, like changing somebody's life in a way, like giving them a chance to succeed. And so I kind of took that over into more project based now and reaching out to those community partnerships, building those relationships, seeing how Spectrum Health, what we have to offer you as a partnership and what your needs are and how we can all benefit from each other.

Megan Riksen:

That's amazing. Yeah. Sounds like a very fun.

Ron Ayotte:

It's very, it's very rewarding. So like you put it, it's like a, when you do project work, you're working on it, you're working all, you're putting all this time and effort into it. And then when you watch it unfold, whether it's like a a a hiring event or if it's like you're doing some kind of social networking concept mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, when you watch it unfold, it's like, Wow, I did all this. And it's just so rewarding. And, and then all the thank yous you get from all the people that are like needing to apply or wanting to get into Spectrum Health and all the different ways you can and who we can benefit from in all the different areas of the regions. And so it just, it's very impactful.

Brian Bossick:

When you think about like your personality and your strengths, like what, what part of your strengths would you say line up really well with, with the job that you're doing right now?

Ron Ayotte:

So I feel like organizational development skills are huge. They help align our strategies, our structure, even our metrics here in town acquisition, the metrics are a big, big deal. Okay. I should, I should say in every kind of organization. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> they are a big deal. Communication skills. I'm working with all different leaders in the system. I work with a lot of our HR business partners that deal with all the different departments, kind of getting what their needs are and fulfilling them. I'm also working with other different community partnerships. So just depending on what that partnership is, you just making sure you're, you're, those communication skills are coming out the right way. Of course collaboration when we're coming with new ideas, with different team members, with different departments, it's always good to collaborate, make sure you have an opinion. Sometimes you can't be one of those people that just sits in the back.

Ron Ayotte:

You wanna make sure you're given those ideas, even if it may not be the right one or be they may not agree, at least you're showing like, Hey, this is me putting out my ideas and putting in my effort as well. Some other strengths that I think are really important is like I said, relationship building with those leaders, community partnerships, project management. In those projects you have to do, you have to stay organized, stay ready, stay on top of it. You'll be getting emails, calls, voicemails all day long. You just have to make sure you're keeping a list planner, however it is best for you. For me, I'm big into my calendar. I live on my calendar and I have two of them. I have one on my wall and I have one on my computer. That's just how I, I couldn't survive without it.

Ron Ayotte:

So that's a big one for me. Of course another thing that's always big is just having like process improvement, having those processes mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but, and of course being able to understand the change of processes never. And things are always moving, moving parts, different pieces coming in and out. Okay. So just always having that process improvement. And then last but not least, it just, the experience I've had of, I think I've had about over six years of recruitment experience. So just learning how different operations work on the time acquisition side has really got me to where I'm at, I believe.

Megan Riksen:

Okay. That's awesome. Yeah.

Ron Ayotte:

I was a lot. Yeah.

Brian Bossick:

<Laugh>, it really is. I am, I'm so struck by the variety in your job and like how many different things you get to

Ron Ayotte:

Do. It's, Yeah. It's, it's amazing because it's, I always say that it's, it's, you never know what you're walking into, but it's always an exciting day. It's never just that same like recycle same cycle. So Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

Absolutely. Yep. Totally. So if you were talking to a current student mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, let's say who was maybe interested in working in healthcare, but they're like, Oh I hate blood. You know, I feel like I hear that a lot. Like I could be a nurse. Yes. So they're thinking the non-clinical side. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> you, you were talking a lot about the skills you have mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but are there skills you would recommend that they build while they're in college or certain classes that you would recommend they take?

Ron Ayotte:

Yeah, so a lot of the courses that I think would be helpful for college like I said was organizational development quality and process improvements, human resources management. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> human resources law. And then last but not least, ethical business practices. I know I took that here at Grand Valley and that really kind of helped me figure out how the business works. Sure. when I first came in, all I knew was the clinical side and how that operations works. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But when you go to the non-clinical size, the operations is a lot different. There's a lot of different pieces. Exactly. And so learning I think some of those classes really help me. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> first other skills like for you on the personal side of for like that you can work on? Of course. Like, like I said, collaboration, communication just putting yourself out there. Networking, building that social capital's is huge. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, I always say like building your portfolio, especially when you start, like even when you go into an interview, you wanna have that portfolio ready. All of the projects, all the, all the events, all the leadership skills that you've done that you've put your, put your work into mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, just kind of building your portfolio. So those are big ones that I think would be beneficial to be prepared and ready for the nonclinical side.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, I love that. And I don't think we asked you this, but what was your major?

Ron Ayotte:

My major here was in an Allied Health Sciences and then I did a pre-emphasis to pre-professional studies.

Megan Riksen:

Okay, great. So not in the Seidman College of Business?

Ron Ayotte:

No, it was not. I actually started off when my freshman year I did biomedical sciences. I remember I wanted to be a dentist cuz I loved see <laugh>. I did a shadow when I was in high school as at a dentist and I loved it so much. And then I also loved orthodontist so I thought well maybe I'll be an orthodontist. And so I was maybe going back and forth and then I just thought like, this isn't where I wanna be. This isn't the passion. I always hear that if you don't have that passion to get into that program, you won't make it. And so I just thought, you know, why would I wanna go this way? And, and when I know it now I should figure myself out now. So what I did is I would, I went to this career center, kind of figured out my options, what I'm, what would be the best route for me and kind of still being that freshman year, freshman sophomore year, knowing that I still have a lot of time. And so I went into Allied Health Sciences kind of giving me that range of options cuz Allied Health can be more ways of both the business side. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and the clinical side. You can kind of decide what, if you wanna go into management or if you do wanna go into the nursing program area, you can still do it with that, with this degree. So that was, I really think beneficial for me. Right. So that's kind of what, what got me to the non clinics I was with my allied health sciences degree.

Megan Riksen:

And it sounds like being strategic, even the courses that you choose within Allied Health or choose as your elective, that maybe you could choose a business ethics course even if it wasn't a part of your program.

Ron Ayotte:

Mm-Hmm <affirmative> it wasn't. Yeah. I like you get to choose those electives. I'm sure that you probably still can here as a student. Yeah. Yes you can. So I just, that was something I went to the career center about. Like, so this is what I think my path is, What would be the best electives for this route? Just kind of still trying to figure out what I wanna do. Yep. And so that's why they thought, well this would be the best kind of standard is to kind of lead your path.

Megan Riksen:

That's great. Yeah. That's

Brian Bossick:

Awesome. So you mentioned the ethics class. Were there one or two other ones too that really stood out to you that, that helped to kind of shape this direction?

Ron Ayotte:

I think my other one was the HR law and then Human Resources management. Okay. Cause I really did like the human resources department cuz I knew that there was different areas you could choose benefits, you could do employee relations. There was the recruitment side, there was finance. So I was just like, I knew that those were all interesting. I just didn't know which one I wanted to pinpoint to. And so that's why I thought, well if I should probably take more of those, like management classes, legal classes, because that's kind have a, it's gonna have a little bit of each each side. So that's kind of where the I went with my scope of classes.

Brian Bossick:

Excellent.

Megan Riksen:

That's great. Thanks. are there other non-clinical areas that you would encourage students to explore? I think we've gotten a nice picture of kind of the HR world but can you kind of broaden that picture a little bit?

Ron Ayotte:

Yeah. So I know a lot of people always think, Okay, so when I think of non-clinical, I just think of HR and those big ones, but there is just so many that you could choose from. Like, we have, at Spectrum Health, we have a marketing and communications team. And so where there's different parts of marketing and communications, some people think, Oh, when you look at those billboards, and I, I, that's like the big thing about Spectrum Health, that's like, you can't go anywhere and can wrap as well seeing one of their billboards. Everywhere. And so there's also those pieces, but there's, there's just a lot of work to it. There's like the team that has to figure out what they're gonna put on the billboards and then there's also the communications team. So figuring out what their best, like the, the language is of how it's the, the writing, all of that pieces. And then there's also marketing teams that work on our insight pages on the inside and also work with different departments. Like we have a whole marketing team that works with our ceo, with our finance. So just, I always think that's a big one that gets missed sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. And I just know that we like marketing is how we get our candidates in some ways. Like I feel like if I was from a different city, I would look at a billboard and like, Oh, this looks like this looks interesting to me.

Ron Ayotte:

So yeah. Another one I think is our information system side, our it, that one always I feel is I was a good area to look into on the non-clinical side. Finance is always a big one. People would always just think like, Oh, there's an accountant, but there's so much more to it that there's always different positions as well. And then of course in the human research side, since it's my favorite, there's just so many different areas you can go to, like I mentioned, like you can go into the benefit side and learn all the pieces of that. And then of course there's employer relations. So those are always the big ones that I think. Yeah. And then of course there's always other ones. Entry level positions. We have our patient service representatives that work alongside of a lot of our outpatient clinics. Okay. We also have a lot of like material handlers, so working in our distribution centers mm-hmm. <Affirmative> so that's always a big one as well. It would be

Megan Riksen:

A good way to kind of dip your toes in the water too. Exactly. Do I like being here? Do I like this environment? Maybe this isn't what I wanna do forever once I graduate,

Ron Ayotte:

But exactly. Whenever people think of entry level positions, they usually think like, oh, like nurse tech, CNA. But there's just so many more that you can figure out, like you said, to dip your foot in the water and see if, like, is this the area that I would want to go into? Yeah,

Megan Riksen:

For sure. Awesome. Well, I think my last question then for you is just any final kind of parting advice to give to current students who might now hopefully be considering a a non-clinical healthcare career?

Ron Ayotte:

Yeah, so my big one is always saying build your network. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> for me, for example LinkedIn being on Indeed. All of those networking events that you can, that you get a hold of. I'm sure that GVSU has like a page of all the things the students could, could attend. Yep. Stay yes to them, go to them. You never know who you're gonna meet. If you think about it, we're in a world now of connections and networking and that can get you very far in life. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So that's always one thing I always push for people to do, even if it makes you nervous, just be curious, get involved join different, different clubs. I know that at Spectrum Health we have a lot of different inclusive resource groups for individuals. So just like joining those, getting to know other people in those environments making those connections and building that social capital, building that portfolio of you so that you can shine when you are ready for that next step and that next position in life.

Megan Riksen:

That's great.

Brian Bossick:

I love what you said about be curious, Right? Like, feel free to test things out a little bit, see what's out there, see who resonates. Yeah, that's, that's great advice. Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Great. Well this has been super valuable. Thank you so much for joining us,

Ron Ayotte:

Rob. Yeah, thank you so much. This has been amazing and I hope you guys have a great rest of your day. Thanks.

Brian Bossick:

That was such a great interview by Rob. And I think there were some really interesting themes that he talked about and I think great things for us to take two that I really wanna highlight was, I I think one of them was, he mentioned leading by curiosity. I think when we think about networking, sometimes that term can feel daunting and overwhelming and That's right. If you kind of lead by that curiosity and you let that guide who you're gonna talk to, what you're gonna investigate, suddenly it opens up options. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it definitely seemed like that helped for him too. And I think the other big takeaway was he, he mentioned the transition in your passion. Like, find out what you're passionate for. Don't, don't wait or don't be afraid to kind of take a step back, see if what is working out for you is working, and if not, search out those mentors, those resources, search out us here and we can kind of help you make that shift.

Megan Riksen:

Right. Because you can still work in healthcare, you're still helping people, you're still doing all these things that, you know, if you had chosen the clinical route first, that you can still fulfill a lot of that passion potentially in a non-clinical way. Not that we're advocating one or the other. Absolutely. Clinical is definitely where some, some people should be, but it's just kind of great to explore the other side as well.

Brian Bossick:

Yeah, it's, it's really interesting I think when you hear that term, why I wanna help people. Yeah. There are so many ways to do that. Exactly. And I think that was really translated well here.

Megan Riksen:

Absolutely. Very good. All right, well thank you so much everyone for listening, and we hope you tune in to a future episode soon.