Megan Riksen:

Hello and welcome to the Work Like a Laker podcast. I'm your host, Megan Riksen, and today we are going to discuss what employers really think. Questions like, can a crop top ever be professional? What are they really looking for on a resume? Does GPA matter? So today my co-host is Grace Joaquin, and she's gonna help us to share some results from a survey that was taken by some of our employer partners. So Grace, can you get us started by telling us a little bit about the survey?

Grace Joaquin:

Yes. We sent out a survey to our employer connections and got back 296 responses across all fields of the employers who responded, 94.6%, primarily work out of Michigan. So these are mostly local employers. During today's episode, you will also hear us refer to our career communities and how they differ on the topics we surveyed. Megan, can you give a brief refresher on our six career communities?

Megan Riksen:

I can, yes, please go to our website to find a lot more information on this. But just really briefly, we have business and management, communication in the arts, education, healthcare, human and public service, which would be things in the realm of nonprofit and government and stem, which if you don't know, stands for science, technology, engineering and math. So do you think we had a pretty even spread of employers from these communities?

Grace Joaquin:

Well, it's not very even. Okay.

Megan Riksen:

No.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

We, we did, I kind of figured it wouldn't be.

Grace Joaquin:

Who do you think we had the most responses

Megan Riksen:

From? I'm guessing business. Yes. Okay.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. And actually I will say what I'm going through the responses. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> the bus, like our career community of business did not divert at all from the norm because Oh, interesting. Because they're the majority of Sure.

Megan Riksen:

Of the overall staff. That makes sense.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. So you'll never hear me say, oh, business actually said this,

Megan Riksen:

Had this outlier or

Grace Joaquin:

Whatever. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> because they, they're the bulk of who took this. However, we did get responses from every career community. Oh, nice. So while business is our largest, at 39% of our employers who we surveyed education was our smallest with only 5%. So with that in mind, some of our results from education might not always be super represent representative of that field. One more thing to note is that employers could select more than one community, since we know many employers hire for a variety of positions.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. That's gotta happen quite a bit.

Grace Joaquin:

Oh yeah. I think probably most of the employers

Megan Riksen:

Could probably say they're did that. Yeah. Using more than one. Yep. Great. Awesome. Okay. I am really excited to hear all of this. And just remember a lot of this advice can be useful for our career fair. That's coming up next week. It'll be on October nine. So if you're listening live, make sure you are planning to attend our career fair. All right. Should we start with resumes?

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. Great. Okay. First of all, Meagan, how long do you think a resume should be?

Megan Riksen:

I think typically our advice would be one page.

Grace Joaquin:

Okay. And do you think, is there ever any occasions you would say more than one pages? Yeah,

Megan Riksen:

Absolutely. I do think in some different career communities. Hopefully I'm right <laugh> and I don't know any of these results. So that's also, oh yeah, <laugh>, this is fun. I would think in education sometimes in human and public service, anything that might have maybe STEM has a little bit more of a academic piece to the rule. I think longer than one page resumes are certainly acceptable. Just gotta make sure everything that's on there is relevant still to what you're applying for.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. Our responses pretty much reflect what Megan is saying. So 40% of employers do prefer one page. 52% say no longer than two pages is fine. So two pages. Yep. And 10% say they're okay with any number of pitch? No. Okay. And as Megan suggested, there are some differences between the communities. There are three communities that are more likely to be okay with a longer resume, healthcare, human and public service and education. Megan, do you have any speculation as to why those three are okay with longer? You kind of already hinted on

Megan Riksen:

It, but Yeah. I think it's gotta have something to do within academia at least you know, there's such a thing as a CV or you know, you might have more to include that's relevant to the people who are hiring you, especially in academia. Right? Like, I think even in higher ed, even if you're not faculty it still can be useful to say, I presented at this conference Yeah. And even I attended this conference. Whereas that might not be something that would fit on a one pager. Exactly.

Grace Joaquin:

And even in human and public service, when we think of government resumes, they want pretty much Yeah, yeah.

Megan Riksen:

Everything like give, give me, give me it all.

Grace Joaquin:

They wanna know your next door neighbor from 10 years ago, <laugh>. Not really, but yeah. So those are the three that again, are okay with longer. If you work in one or if you're going to work in one of the other fields, consider keeping it to that one page. Yep.

Megan Riksen:

Makes sense.

Grace Joaquin:

Alright, let's move on to the content of a resume. Okay. We asked employers about different parts of a resume that might be seen as optional to gauge their level of importance. I'm going to break it down into three groups. What they were in favor of, what they were more neutral toward, and what they did not want to see on a resume. Mm. For what they were in favor of in order. Okay. Employers wanted to see a skill section. Ooh, a summary statement. Mm. A physical address in the header and an objective statement.

Megan Riksen:

Wow.

Grace Joaquin:

Now this is not to say they necessarily want to see all of those things

Megan Riksen:

At the same time. Yes.

Grace Joaquin:

Right. It's just saying that those four pieces of that are potentially optional of a resume they were in favor of. Got it.

Megan Riksen:

Okay.

Grace Joaquin:

Are you surprised by any of that?

Megan Riksen:

I guess objective, I am surprised by. I just feel like the trends in resume writing has been more toward that summary. That's also on the little list you gave. The other ones make a lot of sense though. I mean, I guess the physical address that just kind of seems like a no brainer. But I do know that sometimes people are hesitant to include that. So I guess good to know that they like to see it.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. That's why we ask. Yeah. Because I know some students don't always feel comfortable putting it. Yeah. So employers do like to see it. Yeah. Doesn't mean that you have to necessarily, but that is their preference. And they were in more in favor of a summary statement to your point. So I do think it Okay. It is leaning toward that. Sure. But objective statement, they still were in generally. Okay. In

Megan Riksen:

Favor. So basically have something at the top of your resume that's kind of like grounding it. Yeah.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. Good. That's a good way to summarize

Megan Riksen:

That. Yeah. Okay.

Grace Joaquin:

Employers, however, were more neutral on a few things. Okay. So those things were cover letters, interested hobbies. I wish you could have seen me today

Megan Riksen:

When I said

Grace Joaquin:

Cover letters and having references listed at the bottom. Okay. There were some slight differences between career communities, so the three career communities who prefer longer resumes that we just touched on. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> also prefer cover letters. So if you are applying for education, healthcare, or a job in human and public service, be sure to include a cover letter and don't shy away from a two-page resume. So they like

Megan Riksen:

All the Yeah. More details. Yes. More is more. Okay.

Grace Joaquin:

Also, employers in communication and the arts were less likely to want an interest in hobby section and STEM employers were less likely to want references at the bottom. Okay. Megan, what's your general advice about references? Adding those to a resume?

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. I typically say have that included separately. Either just attach that right along with your application, like a separate page with the references or often it'll, you'll be asked to include them anyways when you fill out an application. Yeah. I feel like I would rather spend the space, especially on a one page resume with things I've done rather than referring to other

Grace Joaquin:

People. Yeah. Great advice. And I think something to keep in mind here too is that these are areas employers we're neutral towards. So Yeah. You know, I wouldn't necessarily, if you have a one page resume, I probably would keep those references off that one page. Yes. But maybe you need a little space to fill uhhuh <affirmative>. It doesn't mean that you can't put some interests or hobbies on there if there's a little space left, but it's just not going to be your top

Megan Riksen:

Priority. Yeah, that's interesting. That's neutral. Yeah. I I I would've expected to be a little more toward the, not include the interest in hobbies.

Grace Joaquin:

And again, I think it was careers in communication and the arts, it

Megan Riksen:

Was in a not include. Okay. So I mean,

Grace Joaquin:

Again, thinking about where you're, you know, what area you're in. Yeah. There was one thing that the employers all agreed that they did not want to see on a resume, and they do not want to see a headshot.

Megan Riksen:

Ah, okay.

Grace Joaquin:

55% strongly disagreed with the idea of including one on a resume. Which I think that I'm assuming does not surprise

Megan Riksen:

You. Not at all. No.

Grace Joaquin:

<Laugh>. All right. And let's stay

Megan Riksen:

Away. Yes. Stay away from the photos of yourself.

Grace Joaquin:

Let's move into GPA. Okay. Employers are a little all over the place with GPA. Mm. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and they're pretty evenly split on if they either always want a GPA Oh, wow. If they never want a GPA or if they only want it, if it's a 3.0 or above.

Megan Riksen:

Oh my gosh.

Grace Joaquin:

So it, the results didn't really clarify too much. Sure. So with that in mind, Megan, do you have any advice? Like what would you say about including GPA?

Megan Riksen:

Typically am of the camp, if it's above a 3.0, include it. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's tough. And clearly it probably is tough because employers are <laugh> all over the board, but yeah, I I would say do not include it if it's under a three, that would be my advice. Yeah. And then I would say it's kind of up to you Yeah. If you include it or not. Beyond that,

Grace Joaquin:

Do you think there's a career community or, no, I'll rephrase that. What career community do you think cares the most about including a GPA? Like they want you to include it. Mm.

Megan Riksen:

Stem

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah, stem, they, they do care the most. So they said that they're more likely to say they always want to see that GPA on there. All right. There were on the other side of things, Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, there were a few career communities that were less likely to want it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So let's see, 49% of healthcare and 51% of human and public service say to never include your GPA. Oh, wow. And that's compared to 26% of all employers say to never include oh's. So it's almost double

Megan Riksen:

A big difference. Wow. Okay.

Grace Joaquin:

And I, I don't know if I said this, but 41% of STEM employers say to always include it as opposed to 25% of all employers. Okay. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So again, quite a big difference there. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. Moving onto another area that is a bit all over the place, should we include high school on our resume? The employers were again, almost evenly split between suggesting it's fine to include it at any point. It's fine to include it if you're a freshman in college or younger. It's fine to include it only if you're a sophomore in college or younger, or only if you're a senior in college or younger. It was almost, again, evenly split between those options. Wow. So me again, let's make sense of that. What, what would be your advice in regards to whether or not someone should include experiences from high school on a resume? Sure.

Megan Riksen:

I think in your first maybe second year, what else are you really going to include? Right? Like absolutely. Especially employment leadership involvement in things that have some bearing on what you're doing now or wanna do in the future. I, yeah. I would say sophomore and under Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. To me, I would be hopeful that seniors would have enough from their four years in college to be able to knock off some of that stuff that's a little less recent. Yeah.

Grace Joaquin:

I think that's great advice. And a, a good general rule to go by, there is some differences between career communities. Okay. So it might be, you know, depending on what community you're in it might change your opinion on what to add. So healthcare education and human and public service seem to be the most in favor of college students, including high school through senior year of college. Hmm. Okay. So if you're in any of those three career communities, again, they're the ones who like the longer resumes, they like the cover

Megan Riksen:

Letters. Yeah. That's a, that's a really good point.

Grace Joaquin:

So you can be a little bit more detailed. Maybe if you had a great mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, maybe you did some volunteering at a hospital in high school.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, that's a really good point. You wanna

Grace Joaquin:

Include that still? Yep. Okay. So in addition to including or not including high school on a resume, what are some other content areas people should consider? What do you think employers care the most about when they are looking at a resume?

Megan Riksen:

Sure. I mean, I think there's some pretty much absolute must absolute basics like your education Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> your experience. And I would interpret experience somewhat broadly, doesn't have to be just paid employment. And you might decide to break that out into volunteer versus leadership versus, you know, paid positions that you've had. But those would kind of be the two biggest areas I would think about.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. I, and I mean, you are correct that we kind of broke down experiences Yeah. So we can see what, what they care about

Megan Riksen:

More than others. Yeah. I tried to get an A on that test and like, I mean, you cover it all technically did then. Yes.

Grace Joaquin:

<Laugh> I will say we did not ask about education just 'cause we no. Sure.

Megan Riksen:

Okay. We already

Grace Joaquin:

Know that they wanna see that. So that's one thing we did not ask about. But in regards to other areas that mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> that are often common on a resume, I am going to list them from least important. Okay. According to the employer to most. Now none of these were something that the employers absolutely hated. So even the least thing, like the lowest on my list, you can still include if you have the space, but Okay. Here is the lowest ranked sports and athletic participation. Oh, okay. Then we have research and publications. Hmm. Professional development and conferences, honors and awards, non-industry related work experience, like maybe a part-time job at Subway or something like that. Involvement in student clubs and organizations. Now we're into our top four mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> volunteer and community service work leadership positions. Our second place is hard skills and our top is industry related work experience slash internships. Okay. Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

Which

Grace Joaquin:

I think we both

Megan Riksen:

Probably would've guessed. Definitely.

Grace Joaquin:

So again, this is not saying that adding sports, for example, is a bad idea. Yep. But if you only have room for sports or honors Mm-Hmm. Maybe you should include honors instead based on this list. Mm-Hmm. Yep. Or you might consider putting sports in a leadership section if you can make it fit in there for. So with the different career communities, there were a few differences for communication in the arts. They put less of an emphasis on hard skills and more on student clubs and organizations and volunteer or community service work. Okay. What do you think healthcare cares about more than other career communities would? Hmm. There's probably a couple answers that might work.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. The first thing that comes to mind is community service volunteering, like in the healthcare field.

Grace Joaquin:

That would also come to my mind. I think that they probably think of that as industry related. Sure. So that's, so okay. Instead they put they care more about research and publication. Oh

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In healthcare.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Yeah. That would not be at the bottom of the list for a healthcare survey. Exactly. Resume as it was in the general survey.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. It was second to survey to last. So just again, so keep in mind your field that doesn't,

Megan Riksen:

You know Yeah. And the job, right. Like even the sports athletics thing, if you're applying somewhere where that's extremely relevant. Yes. If you're going into sports marketing, I think we should include it.

Grace Joaquin:

Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And so I, I will just let you know, I was gonna ask you this, but since you already mentioned human and public service, they do care more about volunteer and community service. Okay. Like you were saying. That makes sense. Yes. and then one other area they also care more about in human and public service is conferences and professional development. Oh yeah. Okay. So yeah, those are some things that stood out there. That's great. Now let's move on to dress code. Ooh. First we asked about career affairs, which again, if you're listening to this live is very fitting because we're about to have our career

Megan Riksen:

Fair. Absolutely.

Grace Joaquin:

Next week. The majority of employers said they're happy with business casual with only 8% wanting business professional, which would be like a suit. Wow. Can you briefly explain business casual? Sure.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. I would say business casual. Is it, it's even tough <laugh> because business casual is changing and I think it's leaning more casual. Yeah. Where in a lot of workplaces, business casual could mean like a nice pair of jeans. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and like a nice top, I would say for a career fair they likely mean no jeans. Yeah. so some sort of pant and you know, a button down shirt or a nice sweater something that typically is a little more fitted Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> without being too fitted. Right. something that just, that fits you well and is the right size.

Grace Joaquin:

Yes. And we did differentiate between business casual and what we called business relaxed on our survey. Mm. Okay. So kind of the, the, the nice jeans with a nice top was more of that business relaxed. Business relaxed, okay. Yeah. And business casual, or the other things you were mentioning like a nice pair of slacks and a nice tap. So great. But only

Megan Riksen:

8%.

Grace Joaquin:

Only 8% the

Megan Riksen:

Business professional. Yeah.

Grace Joaquin:

Wow. For a career fair. Mm-Hmm.

Megan Riksen:

Wow. That's really interesting. I would've said way higher.

Grace Joaquin:

Me too. And I feel like we've always told students that they should probably wear a suit to our career fair. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. And I don't think it's ever a bad idea. You're only going to impress people if you do. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, if that was going to prevent you from coming, this is just a good reminder that you should still come. You don't need a suit,

Megan Riksen:

Not prevent you. And we have said that as well, like dressed in the best you have Yes. For a career fair. So it's nice that these results kind of align with that. Yes.

Grace Joaquin:

Great. What career community do you think is more likely to expect a candidate to dress business professional at a career fair? There was one that stood out. Really?

Megan Riksen:

I think you'll

Grace Joaquin:

Be

Megan Riksen:

Surprised. And it's not business. No. Oh. Then I'm gonna say healthcare

Grace Joaquin:

Education.

Megan Riksen:

Oh

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. That really surprised me. They, wow. Yeah. I think it was like 21% of the employers surveyed and that group expected Wow. Business professional at a career.

Megan Riksen:

That is super interesting. Yes. Yeah. I can't think of a good reason why

Grace Joaquin:

Me either. I, it's a smaller group. So again, I wonder if we surveyed more if that would change. Sure. Interesting. Yeah. I thought that was, I thought that was interesting too. Human and public service and STEM on the other hand, were the least likely to want business professional with only 3% of human and public service and 1% of STEM employers preferring business professional.

Megan Riksen:

Wow. Yeah.

Grace Joaquin:

So if you're looking for a job in those fields, you really don't need to Yeah.

Megan Riksen:

You spring suit know that you do not need to buy that suit. Yes.

Grace Joaquin:

But I will say dressing up for an interview was slightly different. Oh, okay. So here,

Megan Riksen:

That's a good distinction. Yes.

Grace Joaquin:

So you still, again, you might need a suit after all for that interview. Uhhuh, the majority of employers actually preferred business professional attire for an interview. Okay. Okay. Yeah,

Megan Riksen:

That

Grace Joaquin:

Seems right. Exactly. So keep that in mind. You know, coming to a career fair, you don't need to spring for the suit, but you might wanna borrow one from your cousin for the

Megan Riksen:

Interview. So by the time you're actually interviewing for an internship for a job, yes. You can think about getting one of those or borrowing one. Exactly.

Grace Joaquin:

Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, let's move on to a different kind of attire. Megan, do you think employers are okay with employees wearing crop tops in the workplace? And let me preface this by painting a picture. Sure. Yeah. So we're thinking here, think of a, a nice material crop top that only shows maybe a sliver of midriff like

Megan Riksen:

An inch.

Grace Joaquin:

If that, if that. Okay. And then a blazer over it and some nice work pants. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, maybe some like linen, you know. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> pants that tie at the top. What do you think, how do you think employers would feel about that outfit?

Megan Riksen:

I, I think I'm still gonna say, even though that does sound kind of nice that it's still a no, they would still say no,

Grace Joaquin:

77% strongly disagree that someone should wear a crop top to work. 77% strongly disagree. Okay. And, and there, you know, I think the majority of the rest, you know, slightly disagreed. Like hardly there was like maybe one that

Megan Riksen:

Thought it was okay. Even the professional crop top. No, thank you. Exactly. Okay.

Grace Joaquin:

Got it. And I do think it's important to mention this because I do go on TikTok sometimes and I see people sharing their outfits of the day Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> for going into a, an office space. And some of, some of the outfits they're choosing have a crop top. And it looks very nice and I think it looks pretty professional. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But that does not mean that the majority of employers feel that way. Yep. So keep that in mind and please be, yep. I would probably wait and until you see someone else wearing one Yes.

Megan Riksen:

That you think Yes. Is maybe above you, because I'm sure there are some workplaces where that absolutely is. Okay. Yes. But yes, if we're hearing that, what was it, 77%? Yes. Strongly disagree. Strongly disagree. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Don't do that.

Grace Joaquin:

Okay. One last question, Megan, should you ever back out of a job offer, if you've already accepted, what do you think?

Megan Riksen:

Hmm. Like before you've actually had day one? Yeah. Like it's kind of in that limbo period. Let's

Grace Joaquin:

Say you accepted the job offer yesterday. Yep. You told 'em Yes. You're super excited. Yep. Today you get an offer at a different position that you're more excited about. Mm-Hmm.

Megan Riksen:

<Affirmative>,

Grace Joaquin:

What should you

Megan Riksen:

Do? I think in the majority of cases, it's the right thing to stick with your, the offer that you accepted, right? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, you made a promise and you kind of need to live with your decisions. So I, I think that's the general advice I would give. However, those are nuanced conversations that would be great for you to come in and talk with your career advisor about if you're really considering doing that.

Grace Joaquin:

And I think that nuances reflected in the responses. Okay. I was actually a little surprised because the responses were very mixed. I expected the employers to be more against Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> people,

Megan Riksen:

Right. Backing out. Yeah. Because it makes their life harder. Yes. If somebody accepts, then they have to go through this whole process again or move to the next person on the list. Like it's more work for them. Yes.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. And especially the, I mean, if you've waited a week or two or, you know. Right. So I that's what I thought the results would be. Yeah. But actually it's, it's very mixed. Hmm. So it was almost evenly split between people either strongly agreeing that it's okay, mildly agreeing. Like it, it was, it was very, very mixed. There was, there was one career community that cared about candidates backing out the most though. So there was one that kind of stood out that if you're in this community, you might wanna think twice before you do this. Yeah. And that was, what do you think?

Megan Riksen:

Healthcare?

Grace Joaquin:

No. Dang. And actually, and I thought it would be education.

Megan Riksen:

Sure. Because like, yeah. I don't

Grace Joaquin:

Know. Just coming from, I used to be a teacher. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And I just felt like they would care a lot. Yeah. Yeah. But it was actually stem.

Megan Riksen:

Oh

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. Oh. So if you work in the field of stem, you know, just

Megan Riksen:

They're pretty anti Yeah. Yeah.

Grace Joaquin:

Be cautious about saying yes. Unless you know for sure you want that position.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah. Yep. All right. Well thank you so much for doing this survey. This was really fun.

Grace Joaquin:

Yeah. Thank you for letting me, I love stats, so thanks for letting me check your ear off about

Megan Riksen:

This. Absolutely. I feel like we need to do this again the next time you do a survey, we'll we'll have to come in and talk about it again. Yeah. I

Grace Joaquin:

Think we're doing a benefits related one that would, which might be be <laugh>. I think it's important info. Maybe not as cheesy. Maybe.

Megan Riksen:

Yeah, probably not. But who knows? We could always learn something. Yeah. Maybe we'll do a mini episode. Tune in next year. Yeah, exactly. Awesome. All right. Well thank you so much to everyone for listening, and we hope you tune in to a future episode soon.